7/03/2007

Casey Serin, Sociopath

This is my response to the question "What's Wrong With This Picture?" Casey Serin's cycle of deflection and manipulation has continually reminded me of something I've seen before. And after looking into it a bit further, I'm convinced that Casey Serin is a sociopath.

Sociopaths are the individuals with Antisocial Personality Disorder. In her book, The Sociopath Next Door, author Martha Stout points out that "We are accustomed to think of sociopaths as violent criminals, but...the chief symptom is that that person possesses no conscience. He or she has no ability whatsoever to feel shame, guilt, or remorse....they can do literally anything at all and feel absolutely no guilt."

The author includes a checklist of sorts to identify a sociopath in your midst. "The 6-7 tell-tale signs of the typical sociopath--the irresponsibility, a lack of social-conscience, the inability to accept blame ("Because I didn't know what to do at the time..."), a delusional and overinflated opinion of oneself, ("After me, no one will want you...") attitude, the need to dominate, inability to compromise, the continuous need of affirmation from others, the habitual lying and covering up, and, of course, the complete and utter lack of remorse."

Anyone who's read Casey Serin's "I Am Facing Foreclosure" story will recognize many of these traits. So what are the exact characteristics of a sociopath? A basic overview of Antisocial Personality Disorder shows that:

"The symptoms of antisocial personality disorder include a longstanding pattern of disregard for the rights of others. There is a failure to conform to society's norms and expectations that often results in numerous arrests or legal involvement as well as a history of deceitfulness where the individual attempts to con people or use trickery for personal profit. Impulsiveness if often present, including angry outbursts, failure to consider consequences of behaviors, irritability, and/or physical assaults.

Some argue that a major component of this disorder is the reduced ability to feel empathy for other people. This inability to see the hurts, concerns, and other feelings of people often results in a disregard for these aspects of human interaction. Finally, irresponsible behavior often accompanies this disorder as well as a lack of remorse for wrongdoings.

It is important to note that, in order for a conclusive diagnosis of APD, some or all of these traits must be apparent in adolescence. And from Casey Serin's first online Ponzi scheme at the age of 14, we see that the handwriting has been on the wall for over a decade.

This profile of a sociopath offers a clear picture of the sociopath in his daily life:

-Glibness and Superficial Charm.

-Manipulative and Conning.

-They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

-Grandiose Sense of Self. Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

-Pathological Lying. Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

-Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt.

-A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

-Shallow Emotions. When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

-Incapacity for Love.

-Need for Stimulation. Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

-Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

-Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature.

-Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency.

-Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

-Irresponsibility/Unreliability. Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

-Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle. Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

-Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility. Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

-Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them

-Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them

-Authoritarian

-Secretive

-Paranoid

-Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired

-Conventional appearance

-Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)

-Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life

-Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)

-Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim

-Incapable of real human attachment to another

-Unable to feel remorse or guilt

-Extreme narcissism and grandiose

-May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

In regard to their work habits, sociopaths typically do not work. When they do, they are frequently absent or may quit suddenly. They will do this without regard to others' wishes or welfare. They often lie, both to gain personal pleasure and for profit.

Sociopaths may default on loans, fail to provide for their families, engage in high risk sexual behavior. Impulsiveness, failure to plan ahead, aggressiveness, irritability, irresponsibility, and a reckless disregard for their own safety and the safety of others are common traits of the antisocial personality.

For the untold dozens of people who have been trying to help Casey Serin, I'm sorry to tell you that it really is all for naught. Because one of the underlying traits of sociopaths is their delusion that they are better than everyone else, they are incredibly difficult to treat.

"Treatment for this disorder is very rarely sought. There is a limited amount of insight into the symptoms, and the negative consequences are often blamed on society. In this sense, treatment options are limited. Some research has found long term insight oriented therapy to be effective, but getting the individual to commit to this treatment is a major obstacle.

Prognosis is not very good because of two contributing factors. First, because the disorder is characterized by a failure to conform to society's norms, people with this disorder are often incarcerated because of criminal behavior. Secondly, a lack of insight into the disorder is very common. People with antisocial personality disorder typically see the world as having the problems, not him or herself, and therefore rarely seek treatment. If progress is made, it is typically over an extended period of time."

Additionally, this inability to form emotional attachments or bonds with others prevent people like Casey Serin from feeling any shame, guilt, or remorse. This is dangerous because these are the typical filters that prevent most human beings from engaging in actions that will damage those around them.

For those who have repeatedly stated that Casey Serin's critics are too harsh, the reality is that he will only stop this cycle of manipulation, confidence scams, theft, deception and other criminal activity when he is forced to stop. And this means prison. Casey Serin's behavior shows that he is unable or unwilling to stop himself from inflicting harm on his friends, family, or community.

Casey Serin needs to be removed from the population in order to be stopped from engaging in his sociopathic tendencies. If left to his own devices, even with the help and support of those around him, he will only continue to repeat these behaviors, convinced that he is entitled to do so.

Anyone else having an "aha" moment?

68 comments:

Akubi said...

MURST!

T said...

Damn you, akubi!! Why I oughta....

T said...

Oh, about this topic... yes, I feel the same way. I posted something almost exactly the same on EN a couple of days ago.

Some guy named Tom said he didn't see it. I tried to explain it to him but I was also doing stuff for work so my argument wasn't very compelling or anything. But I absolutely agree with you; the kid's got issues.

Aspeth said...

Sorry I didn't see your EN post, T. While lots of people were pointing to mania, narcissistic personality disorder, et al, something was just never right. But most haterz always concluded that Casey Serin won't stop until he's forced.

Hopefully the family, supporterz, and cheerleaderz will see this and realize how futile "helping" Casey Serin really is. The only real help that can come here is in the form of cooperating with law enforcement to get this soulless bastard off the streets.

T said...

Miracle of miracles, I found it!

Clicky!

T said...

Tom says even more about it here and I could have sworn I'd replied to that comment as well but it doesn't appear that I have. Unless maybe I wasn't paying attention and replied in the wrong thread or I attempted to and then got sidetracked or something . Either way, it's no big loss cause like I said earlier, my argument wasn't very compelling. I'm glad you made a topic about it, tho, cause I think it's really interesting to try to figure out what makes this kid tick.

Torcie said...

I agree Aspeth. This trainwreck of a story has moved far beyond 'a dude and his mortgage fraud' to a sordid tale of mental illness and the terrible impact that this has on the real people around them.

Sociopath seems to fit - bipolar definitely does not, at least not a typical bipolar diagnosis. Unfortunately it is up to those around him to get him some help. Tough call for his parents, but they need to get him committed rather than continue to fund his lifestyle. The kindest thing they can do is say no.

****GRRR could possibly have posted this three or four time *kicks firefox* *****

lawnmower man said...

I've been leaning towards NPD -- another disorder with basically no chance of change or recovery -- but this is pretty compelling.

The only thing I'd argue against is this:

Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Not from what we've seen of him on video, particularly the (frankly creepy) Australian interview: on camera, at least, he is an extremely poor liar.

T said...

Ok, third time's a charm.

(I should not post whilst talking on the phone cause I'm totally blowing it.)

Here is the sociopath list I posted at EN.

F'kin finally. That's the list that is quite similar to the one in this topic. And again, I absolutely agree.

Off to class now!!

Aspeth said...

Just saw your linky and have to say, woha...to the "T" !!!

lawnmower...I doubt KC could pass a lie detector test, but I do think he's a skilled liar. There are a lot of completely fabricated details that he's able to recall in an instant. The video shows he's got 'tells' but hell, he's been able to con even the people closest to him.

Aspeth said...

"Torcie said...
a sordid tale of mental illness and the terrible impact that this has on the real people around them."


Indeed. And yes, the cheerleaders have to stop enabling him--how long have the critics been saying that?!? That doesn't stem from hate, but from the reality that Casey Serin is a danger to himself and, more importantly, others.

Schnapps said...

Exactly, Aspeth.

I said something similar awhile back over here http://redschnapper.blogspot.com/2007/06/more-pearls-of-wizdumb.html (sorry, back is hurting too much to fiddle with HTML code).

Although I was not nearly so thorough. I seem to recall calling him a sociopath at some point too.

His behaviour is apalling and whether he is aware of it or not is besides the point. He will not stop until he is locked up.

Aspeth said...

Hi Schnapps...sorry you're feeling crap. Yeah, I know I'm not the first or only person to posit this theory. But it really jumped out at me in reading the transcript in CP. I must be a visual person, because when it was laid out in front of me, the pattern jumped off the page.

I'm with you...I could give a flying fuck if Casey Serin helps himself or not. I do care that he is stopped from harming other people.

I also keep thinking that it's very likely that we only know part of the story, and that KC is online perpetuating other scams and schemes in various user names.

Schnapps said...

Oh, I have no doubt that's he's perpetrating other scams online and probably IRL as well.

He's a con man, pure and simple. And he deserves whatever is coming for him.

(yes, when I hurt, I lose all kindness towards those who piss me off)

NotAnOptimist said...

Wow, Aspeth, brilliant analysis. It's funny; I transcribed a large chunk of that transcript, but didn't really think of him as a "sociopath"... all I know is that listening to the fraudcast made me want to inflict massive physical harm to his person. And I'm really not violent at all. You make a very good argument though, so I guess I won't feel too bad if I bump into him... with my car.

BelowTheCrowd said...

Aspeth,

You and I are coming to similar conclusions. I haven't looked at this from a clinical point of view, but rather have seen lots of similarities between him and other known business criminals. I specifically commented on him and Jeff Skilling of Enron, but the same would probably hold if you compared him to Ebbers, Kozlowski or any of the great frauds of the internut days, many of whom also ended up in jail.

For most of them, reveling in their own genius and not caring about what happened to anybody else were key personality features.

-btc

Khatie said...

This is something I, too, realized some time ago; that Casey's personality mirrored the behavior of the criminals that I've studied (I had aspirations of becoming a crime reporter when I was younger) and of sociopaths that I've read about in Anne Rule's true crime books--one in particular, "Last Dance, Last Chance" about a sociopath who tried to murder his wife. His wife was another submissive, passive person who felt she needed to stay married to him, but it took him nearly killing her (slowly poisoning her with arsenic) to realize how sick and manipulative he was. The actions of Anthony Pignataro were so similar to those of Casey that after the Australia news came back, I reread parts of the book. Scary.

Casey is very sick, and he needs help. He is capable of doing anything in order to keep the funds flowing and the blog moving. He needs help.

Mouse And Pencil said...

I've always seen Casey's behavior to be very similar to the dysfunctional behavior of addicts, but his being a sociopath is also on the table - could be a mix of all of the above, and more.

The key is diagnosis, for those around him, so they can safeguard themselves and learn to cope if they have to stay connected to him. I'm not aware if a sociopath can be "cured" or controlled, and the family may need to accept his illness, and lay down strict rules for his interaction with them, ie. no more money, no shelter, no signing anything, Casey is responsible for his own life, and his activities, if he continues to chase scams, will NOT intrude or interfere with his family in any way. In effect, he will be made into the black sheep who has limited access to family members, in controlled situations.

Or, they can go tough love, and tell him, as long as you are not going to find legitimate work, you will have no contact with us, or help.

Casey needs to learn the hard way what responsibility is, and that there are ramifications to his actions. IF he can learn that, he may not be capable.

On a less personal level, taking Casey off the street is satisfying. Ever watch late night tv and say "Why can't they DO something about these snake oil salesmen?" Ever wish you could track down the spammers who clog your in box? Well, with this case, we CAN do something about it - Casey is headed towards that kind of stuff, being the guy behind the "Apprentice needed" posters all over neighborhoods, stuff like that.

T said...

Mouse And Pencil said...

I've always seen Casey's behavior to be very similar to the dysfunctional behavior of addicts


Well, sure... I see the similarities as well. His drug of choice is money. Casey is chasing the high of living the good life. He equates being rich with being powerful and free. He thinks he deserves it. And he is chasing that high with absolutely no regard for the wellbeing of others.

In many ways, Casey is extremely similar to the self-indulgent addict. The only difference is that an addict's personality is skewed by the substance. Casey is making these choices without the use of drugs which makes him more akin to a sex addict or a compulsive gambler. But bear in mind that even the sex addict and compulsive gambler feels remorse and/or regret afterward. Casey doesn't appear to have any sense of remorse. Instead he views the "haterz" and others as impediments to his success.

In many ways it would be easier for his family if he were a drug addict because then they'd have some hope... some excuse for his behavior that is outside his control (at least while he's in his active addiction). As it currently stands, the level of denial he exhibits is something much deeper than classic addictive behavior... and therein lies our sociopath theory.

What type of treatment would "fix" him? Group therapy would not work because he wouldn't accept constructive feedback from another client, one-on-one therapy wouldn't work because he'd drive the therapist insane, behavioral modification might have some effect but again, he'd need to suffer consequences and that has not yet happened. So far, his lifestyle (and his supporterz/enablerz) have actually reinforced his behavior, and as far as I know, there's no twelve step program for laziness.

Casey presents with core moral deficiencies. He's a tough nut to crack, fo sho. This is why I think jail/prison would be the answer. Casey COULD come out of that experience a changed man. Prison life is not easy. He'd be stripped of everything that makes him feel "special". It might actually be the wake-up call of a lifetime for him. Then again, if history is any indicator (and it is), he'll probably just become more criminally proficient after incarceration and then God help us all.

Sprezzatura said...

Since none of us are mental health professionals, and none of us has had the chance to get Casey on the couch for a real diagnosis, this is all just a parlor game, but I personally tend towards NPD as the diagnosis.

Happy 4th, by the way.

Ogg the Caveman said...

Coincidentally I came across this article on The Sociopath Next Door. It includes some choice quotes from the book that remind me of Snowflake. What I found most striking was the description of sociopaths as "different sub-species of human beings" that operate in fundamentally different ways. That may explain why I've found Snowflake's behavior so difficult to understand.

NotAnOptimist said...

@M&P
Ever wish you could track down the spammers who clog your in box?
That's funny, because we'd have a whole lot LESS spam if people were more diligent about keeping their computers from becoming bots. The bot masters are actually the ones who profit the most from the spam business (and it IS a business), and I've got a funny feeling our buddy Marty might be involved in this business...

Aspeth said...

Ogg...GOOD LINK. Creepy as hell. It's actually a bit difficult to read, as multiple realizations wash over the brain in waves.

I feel dirty now.

Aspeth said...

Optimist...once again, many thanks for your fleet fingers in organizing the transcription. Like I said before, by not not being lulled/irritated by the nasal Sercasey, the pattern became more evident. BRAVO!!!

T said...

Sprezzatura said...

Since none of us are mental health professionals


Speak for yourself there, Sprezzy.

I am a certified addictions professional and I work with dually diagnosed clients (in a volunteer capacity) @ a mental health facility several times a week.

Dually diagnosed clients are those that suffer from chemical dependency and co-occurring mental health disorders.

I feel more than qualified to share my opinion on the situation even though I've never personally assessed Casey in a clinical capacity.

Sprezzatura said...

My apologies, T, I did not know that.

I'd change the comment to say "few" instead of "none" but Blogger does not have comment editing.

T said...

No prob. I think I've mentioned it in the past, Sprez. You probably missed it.

I'm also currently studying pertinent subject matter so that's why I'm glad Aspeth brought up this topic.

His behavior is bizarre, no doubt, but humans are a trip anyway. And it's fun (for me anyway) to try to figure them out.

Dumbfounded said...

I suppose 'socialpath' is the new today's politically correct term. Back in the old days we just called people with like this a**holes.

Ogg the Caveman said...

@ Dumbfounded:

We still call them that. The question remains, however: Just what kind of asshole are we dealing with?

Aspeth said...

From the link that Ogg provided:

"...So from Tillie's point of view it was very important that Catherine would watch Tillie throwing the stone onto the groundhogs burrow door, without it there is no fun, only boredom. Catherine's strong reaction is fun, because Tillie is the one who makes her squirm and feel this emotional chaos inside. "Oh, this is so invigorating!" It is the game, and Tillie is the master player. She knows exactly what makes people tick. This is easy for her, and she cannot understand how stupid others can be for not getting it. The thrill of winning is all that counts.

So after realizing this, it is very easy to understand why she decided to keep her moving as a secret.

She wanted to poke the human ant hill one last time. She wanted to make them run frantically, with confusion in their minds. And Tillie as a "game master" is the reason for this chaos. She introduced this unexpected event into their lives, and now she will enjoy seeing them coping with the consequences."

Dumbfounded said...

@ Ogg - "Just what kind of asshole are we dealing with?"

I would say one that was a 100% success. Hurray! Casey finally did something that he fully succeeded in.

OK now...I think someone needs to update the Caseypedia page titled 'success' because it incorrectly states "Complete, Total, Unmitigated Success: Casey has yet to accomplish an activity...."

Mouse And Pencil said...

Excellent link, Ogg, really makes you think - and love the 5th Element example. (one of my all time fave movies)

Some people are just wired differently/wrong, depending on how you look at it. Some might call it evil. Some would say it's a chemical imbalance.

Somewhere deep inside Snowflake he just sees the world differently, and that's why we don't get him. Those that *do* get him, are the ones to be afraid of, very afraid.

It's like that HBO documentary they did on the mob hitman the Iceman. Chilling, just listening to him describe what he do sends chills through your spine, that he'd take your life in a heartbeat and think nothing of it, no remorse, no regret, no guilt, it's the same to him as swatting a fly.

I think the only good here is Casey hs shown no violent tendencies, although the shaking hands thing worries me. Everything is fine while his schemes cook, but now that the wheels are falling off, who knows what he'll reveal.

T said...

The trippy part for me is that, in a way, he appears to be similar to a cult member.

He thinks mainstream individuals who hold down steady employment somehow just don't "get" it when in fact it is he who is living out this lazy pipe dream.

He looks down his nose at the rest of society because he sees it in terms of us vs. them. Hw and his "get rich quick" buddies enjoy life and take chances. The rest of us plod along like sheep (in his eyes) and are tied to our jobs for 40 hours a week.

Cult members think the same way. They think that their leader is the messiah or what have you and that our society/gov't is wrong and something they want no part of. So they congregate only with other members and think they've found the answer.

After that last "interview" I had with him, it became obvious to me that he is lost. And he ain't coming back any time soon. And no basic intervention is gonna cut it. It's like trying to tell a scientologist that their "religion" is a joke. They just don't/won't get it.

Mouse And Pencil said...

Interesting angle, with Scientology, T, it's pretty valid that Casey's head was prime for the conditioning that the guru's sell - it could have been anything that "clicked", Amway, Scientology, Raider fan...heh, just kidding.

I had a freind who was lost deep in AmWay, and I saw the same kind of garbage conditioning, "power" words (get everyone speaking a special language to identify and bond with each other, and exclude those less fortunate), tight control from those above you in the pyramid...it's all very familiar when you compare them, it's just a matter of degree.

Yeah, Casey is a lifer, he'll never seek out or do honest work.

Akubi said...

In Ogg's link, this passage in particular reminded me of KC:
The good-for-nothing real estate agent keeps telling her that not using a sign is shooting herself in the foot, and that he really thinks she should wait for a higher offer. This buyer came in under her price. But Tillie cannot wait. She has never liked waiting. She will have her moment, and her moment will be tomorrow morning. And then everyone in this whole horrible neighborhood will be in complete shock about her move. She is sure of it. The agent does not understand why secrecy matters, but he is a fool, so why listen to him? She has taken losses before when she wanted to get out of the house fast. "It's all in the game", she thinks to herself, "All in the game.

Akubi said...

ItsAllGood!

T said...

Mouse And Pencil said...

Raider fan...heh, just kidding.


LOL!

Aren't all Raider fans either gang members or ex-convicts... or both?

:)

T said...

Akubi, what the fuck is that thing in your pic? And what the hell is it doing with its mouth?

BelowTheCrowd said...

Of course it's cult-like!

Robert Kiosaki himself is a cultish figure. He started out as an instructor for "Money and You," which was a seminar series loosely-affiliated with Werner Erhard's "est" movement and reportedly used some of the same LGAT tactics. (Lots of links on RickRoss.com.)

His current seminars include much of the same guru worshipping philosophy. The people I've known (I make a consious effort to avoid any more of them, most of them are in my past) who have been around these gurus are as devoted and single-minded about their "guru" as any cult member I've ever met.

Casey seems to be off in that same alternate universe.

-btc

T said...

I'd never even heard of Kiyosaki until IAFF.

My first impression of him (from the video of him and Casey) is that he's a dick.

Mouse And Pencil said...

@T
Coffee, meet keyboard.

ROFL, tell how you really felt, T. :)

Aspeth said...

@BTC...omg, I'd completely forgotten about the cultish bullshit of Werner Erhard (LOL) and EST !!!!

What a sad, stupid fucking joke.

Primordial ooze, that.

Akubi said...

T, that's one of my Pomeranians. Originally he was yawning, but NGB made a blinky out of him so I'm not exactly sure what he's doing now. He's taken on a life of his own.

NotAnOptimist said...

Sort of OT, but on Scientology:

Back in the days of yore when my dad was but a poor college student, he came across a flyer advertising a series of seminars that announced "a way of thinking that will maximize your potential! Or your money back!" You guessed it, it was Scientology. Who doesn't want to "maximize their potential"? My dad decided to pony up some cash to attend (I think these were once a week). While he was at the seminar, he found himself agreeing with every word. A few days later, though, he kinda "woke up" and realized the so-called classes were a bunch of BS. He decided to get a refund. He called up the Scientology office, and the guy who answered was very friendly and told him to just stop by the office. So off went my dad. He got there, had a very nice conversation with some Scientologist dude, and left. It wasn't until he was back home that he realized he hadn't gotten his money back. So he tried again. Once more, the person answering the phone said that my dad had to come to the office in person to pick up the refund. So my dad went... and the same thing happened! It was like brainwashing! I think he tried a few more times... he never did get that refund.

BelowTheCrowd said...

Aspeth,

Kiyosaki joined est and then "Money and You," which was started by an associate of Erhard's. Kiyosaki and a couple of others took over in the 80s and emphasized the Australia and NZ markets during the late 80s and early 90s recession here. They had some success until they were exposed by "Four Corners" -- the Australian Broadcast Corp's "60 minutes" type show.

During the current real-estate downturn, Kiyosaki protege and former associate Dolf De Roos is actively promoting Australia and New Zealand investments as an alternative for Americans. He did this initially under the "Rich Dad" label, and more recently on his own.

I looked at all this and it occured to me that Kiyosaki and his buddies have more than a tangential connection to Australia.

I think Casey is following his idol Kiyosaki. He's studied the man and his claims: Living in his car, going bankrupt, hitting rock bottom and coming all the way back, making his initial comeback in... Australia.

My guess: Casey was in Australia chasing down some Kiyosaki-inspired pipe dream, armed with his juicy corporate credit and convinced that his story follows that of his idol's. He got dumped as soon as the "host" found out that the money wasn't there for the taking.

Casey probably continues to be the perfect mark for anybody who can pretend to help him do any of the things that are part of the Kiyosaki lore.

Sorry for rambling.

-btc

Benoit™ said...

I think he tried a few more times... he never did get that refund.

Your dad is Tom Cruise? Cool! ;-)

Dolph said...

I see BTC mentioned De Roos. I used that name because I needed a moniker that best encapsulated my hatred of gurus.

De Roos was easy because of his past and those DUMB ASS commercials on XM (Hi...I'm Dolph De Roos and I became rich at 18 and so can you).

As for your post, Aspeth...brilliant and much appreciated.

NotAnOptimist said...

Benoit™ said:
Your dad is Tom Cruise?

Alas, you have discovered my deepest, darkest secret. Hang on, I'm feeling the urge to jump on a sofa. Must... resist...

LOL said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LOL said...

MLM scemes (Amway in particular) have been compared to a cult. Isolation and brainwashing are prevelant. Sponsors tell recruits to not associate with family or friends who do not have the proper view towards the MLM. All night rallies and meetings are common with parades or "success stories". These are the people who made Robert Kiyosaki popular, they worship at the altar of "passive income". Families have hired cult deprogrammers to work with relatives sucked into MLM schemes. I don't think it's too far fetched to say that maybe that's what Casey needs.

BelowTheCrowd said...

LOL,

I forgot about the MLM late night rallies.

Or as Casey calls them "late night business meetings with Chris." NRU is most definitely an MLM scheme.

-btc

Alan Smithee/gt said...

Great post and comments, all.

Sprezzatura said...

An old friend is a longtime Amway devotee. I tolerated it for years as a harmless eccentricity, but eventually had to disengage as he wandered farther and father out of the normal world.

It's too bad. He's an intelligent, engaging, and fun guy, but when it comes to MLMs, he's completely irrational.

Ogg the Caveman said...

@ Sprez:

I've seen a friend of a friend go down that path too. It's not pretty. It seems like anyone who goes too deep ends up losing their non-Amway friends, one way or another.

Sid M. said...

Is he a sociopath that gets to express his true self through the guru and MLM teachings or do the gurus and MLM scams create sociopaths?

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I`m happy and lucky, I began to get real money with the help of this company,
and I invite you to do the same. It`s all about how to choose a correct companion utilizes your funds in a right way - that`s the AimTrust!.
I take now up to 2G every day, and my first deposit was 1 grand only!
It`s easy to join , just click this link http://girynufe.lookseekpages.com/borofuha.html
and go! Let`s take this option together to feel the smell of real money

Anonymous said...

Hello !.
You re, I guess , perhaps very interested to know how one can reach 2000 per day of income .
There is no initial capital needed You may commense to get income with as small sum of money as 20-100 dollars.

AimTrust is what you need
AimTrust represents an offshore structure with advanced asset management technologies in production and delivery of pipes for oil and gas.

It is based in Panama with affiliates around the world.
Do you want to become an affluent person?
That`s your choice That`s what you wish in the long run!

I`m happy and lucky, I started to take up real money with the help of this company,
and I invite you to do the same. It`s all about how to choose a proper partner utilizes your funds in a right way - that`s it!.
I earn US$2,000 per day, and my first deposit was 1 grand only!
It`s easy to join , just click this link http://nofuparul.kogaryu.com/fycohi.html
and lucky you`re! Let`s take our chance together to get rid of nastiness of the life

Anonymous said...

Good day !.
You may , perhaps very interested to know how one can make real money .
There is no initial capital needed You may start earning with as small sum of money as 20-100 dollars.

AimTrust is what you need
AimTrust represents an offshore structure with advanced asset management technologies in production and delivery of pipes for oil and gas.

It is based in Panama with structures everywhere: In USA, Canada, Cyprus.
Do you want to become a happy investor?
That`s your choice That`s what you really need!

I feel good, I started to take up income with the help of this company,
and I invite you to do the same. If it gets down to choose a correct companion utilizes your savings in a right way - that`s the AimTrust!.
I earn US$2,000 per day, and my first investment was 500 dollars only!
It`s easy to get involved , just click this link http://uxuhifeqo.virtue.nu/ogawivyf.html
and lucky you`re! Let`s take our chance together to get rid of nastiness of the life

Anonymous said...

Hi!
You may probably be very interested to know how one can manage to receive high yields on investments.
There is no initial capital needed.
You may begin to get income with a sum that usually is spent
for daily food, that's 20-100 dollars.
I have been participating in one company's work for several years,
and I'll be glad to let you know my secrets at my blog.

Please visit my pages and send me private message to get the info.

P.S. I earn 1000-2000 per daily now.

[url=http://theinvestblog.com] Online investment blog[/url]

Anonymous said...

Hey Shirley, whatever man?!

-Warm regards,
Kendra

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